Shudder over 100km/hr

[beyondtool]

I just picked up my new ignis and would you believe it there's a nasty shudder coming through the wheel over 100kms an hour. I'm assuming it's in need of a serious wheel alignment, and the car is drifting to the left a little. Is it typical to need to get wheel alignments regularly for the Iggy? I'm covered by a statuary warranty if it's anything more serious.

Any other thoughts or suggestions what I should look for? I'm a little miffed as I'm going to have to restrain my driving until I can get it seen too this week.

[[YLD80Y]]

Rear wheel balance by the sound of it. Vibrations under 60-80 is usually front balance, above that is rear.

A wheel alignment probably wouldn't hurt, but some aligners do set the car to drift ever so slightly to the left. Apparently a safety thing to stop you drifting into oncoming traffic.

[Pugman]

Sounds like wheel balance. I had to get mine done once but that's all so far.

[beyondtool]

Getting it fixed tomorrow. Guess it's just one of those things..

[[YLD80Y]]

With the stick-on wheel weights most rims have now, throwing one off isn't unusual.

[pHr34kY]

If you get a wheel balance, I'd still request some stick-on weights. The factory clip-on weights damage the lip of the rim. It's best not to move those things too many times.

Also, I'm of the understanding that the rear wheels cannot be aligned, but I don't think they come out of alignment unless you bend the axle (Keigo managed to do that once).

I've found the front wheels don't stay in alignment for too long, and the car tends to sway left after a while. I'm getting mine checked on the weekend. It feels a bit off after 20,000kms. With the cost of tyres on these things, a wheel alignment at the right time pays for itself quite easily. Of course, how long the wheels stay in alignment depends on your driving style. If you refrain from bashing the car over speed bumps and gutters, torque-steering and three-wheeling - you should go longer between alignments.

[Keigo]

yeah yeah i bend it not once but twice

[beyondtool]

Alignment was done yesterday, seemed to be pretty close, only the toe was out a fraction. Not sure on the wheel balance, the idiot who did it forgot to save the printout. Grumble.

It was a lot better but the ride was a little harsh so I went to check the tyre pressure today. All wheels were on 40psi, except one on 37pi. That seemed far too much for a small car tyre so I dropped it to 35psi all round. Handling and comfort were much improved.

About 10mins after I did this I heard a loud "pop" on the freeway like a tyre going off. I'm assuming this was the wheel moving slightly to reset in the rim? Tyres were cold.

What PSI are you guys running?

[Pugman]

Recommended is 33F and 31-33 Rear. I stick to that.

[pHr34kY]

yeah yeah i bend it not once but twice

Yeah, the second time it didn't bend - it shattered.

And I'm running 38PSI all round at the moment. I'm running 195/55/R15 tyres which need to be inflated more than the factory ones. I'm thinking I should probably soften them seeing that there's an 8-month pregnant woman in the passenger seat. But then again, she drives it harder than I do...

[beyondtool]

Sounds like you are already training the young one up!

Shudder is gone now, though I can't wait to change the rubber over for something a little wider and softer. The cheap replacements the previous owner fitted aren't the grippiest..

[pHr34kY]

I can't wait to change the rubber over for something a little wider and softer.

You can't go much wider than the factory spec. 195mm is the widest you can legally (and safely) fit. However, if you go wider, you need to inflate them harder (due to the profile).

If you want a wider tyre with a softer ride, you'll probably need wider rims. And yes, when it comes to tyres, you can feel every dollar you put into them (you can also feel every dollar scrubbing off around corners).

[beyondtool]

Yeah I'm going to get new rims very soon to match new tires, I'm planning on 195mm wide. Anyone have any suggestions on tyres, happy to drive anywhere around Brisbane/Gold Coast for the right price/set.

[IGNIS SPORT]

IM running 195 x 50 0n 15 x 6.5 inch cobolt speedy rims . These seems to fill the bill nicely . Tyres are bridgestone G 3 around the $ 140 mark each . Find there very good in the wet , Takes a little time to get them warm ,but they stick like glue when you do. My ones looks as thoe Ill get 60,ooo out of the front and a fair bit more out of the rears. Hope this helps.

[pHr34kY]

I roll on ContiPremiumContact2. Fantastic in the wet and the dry. They seem do die at about the same rate as the factory Advans, except they've got about two or three times the grip in the wet.

[Vuka1]

I think VW have these ContiPremiumContact2 as std fitment on the Polo GTi
Great looking tread

[pHr34kY]

I think VW have these ContiPremiumContact2 as std fitment on the Polo GTi
Great looking tread

Indeed. Most fancy European manufacturers have that tread factory-fitted to their sport models. There was a list (I think) on http://www.tyres4u.com.au/, but the site appears to be down at the moment.

[Vuka1]

Russ how much were they each?

[pHr34kY]

Russ how much were they each?

About $175, but that's for the ones with a higher speed rating. I think the ones rated to 180kph are a bit cheaper. That's for 195/55/R15. The profile fits the Ignis rims, but it's a bit of a bulge (however it ensures you'll never scratch the rims!). The 185 tyres are about 10 bucks more because they're less common.

Oh, and the site is back up:
http://www.tyres4u.com.au/brandselector_doc-contiprodcpc2_img-cp_show.aspx

According to the brochure, they're Australian OEM Tyres for:
Alfa Romeo: 159
Audi: A6
Dodge: Caliber
Ford: Focus II
Jaguar: XJ6, XJ8
GM: Combo
Peugeot: 207
Renault: Scenic II, Clio III
VW: Golf 5, Passat

[beyondtool]

Well I'm trying some Sumitomo 195x50x15 HTR 200 tyres at the moment, 95$ea from Jax Quickfit at Ashmore. Seem to be a very good tyre, not as good as the yokos I had on my old swift but the Ignis seems to stick to the road well with them. Its a soft compound so I'm yet to see how they fair with wear or wet roads.

http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=HTR+200&tirePageLocQty=&commentStatus=P

[beyondtool]

Well the problems back, and I'm not sure it ever went away. I've had the wheels balanced and aligned 3 times now, and it is definitely still there. Weird problem only happens over 100kms/hr and is almost unnoticeable on a dead level road. As soon as there is a slight slope the wheel starts to shudder in a cyclical pattern. It will slowly increase the shudder for about 5-7secs then go away for 5-7secs.

If I disengage the clutch it does not change, so it doesn't seem to be drivetrain.

Any idea? A bent axle? I'm trying to figure out how much this is going to cost to fix and where I can get it done.

[IGNIS SPORT]

Get your tyres checked, I had a hyundai assent once that for the love of me know one could seem to fixs .I also went thru this whole saga of wheel alighments ,balances etc etc .Turned out that the internal structure of the tyre its self started coming apart,couldnt tell buy looking at it or buy balancing as the balance machine only balances the tyres/rims at 60 ks so never showed up.The answer comes buy doing Two things 1. swap back for front rims see if the shudder goes away or 2 buy putting on another set of rims on the front to try.Make sure you are running 1 Degree of negative camber on the front ask for print out from wheel alignment to check this.(dont take there word for it ).If after this you still have ay shudder try inspecting the wheel bearings then move onto your cv joints, but id say its a tyre structure probleum.Let me know how you go.

[beyondtool]

Don't think it's tyres or mags, they have been replaced with new ones this year and the problem didn't change (I was hoping the whole tyre and mag change would fix this problem, but it didn't). Might be wheel bearings I guess, that would make sense. When I get the chance I'll have to find a place to check this out for me.

[[YLD80Y]]

You'd hear a problem with the wheel bearings long before you'd feel it. Shudder can also be caused by worn steering/suspension components, however because yours is happening at high speed I would definately suspect the problem is somewhere in the rear.

[beyondtool]

The shake is definitely coming from the front wheels. I would not rule out shocks as the rears had to be replaced recently as they were weeping. Car is around 67XXXkms so it's still pretty fresh. I think the previous owner may have hit something at speed to cause this kind of issue.

[[YLD80Y]]

Interesting. Front wheel shake is usually felt at low speed.

[IGNIS SPORT]

Try going faster then the shudder speed then apply the brakes gently to bring it back down thru the shudder speed .Note if the vibration is worse or better .If its worse theres a front end probleum,If its better or the same then thers something going on in the drive train.If you suspect drive train then do as above but instead of applying the brakes dissengage the clutch, if it vibrates worse its the cv joint,if it doesnt then I would be looking at wheel bearings, bent or warped disc.hope this helps

[beyondtool]

I will double check this tomorrow, but from what I can recall the shudder does get worse if I slightly brake. It seems the worst between 100-120kms/hr, not that I've driven faster than 120km/hr If I disengage the clutch the problem doesn't get any worse, it's about the same.

So might be looking at bearing or warped disc? Any idea how much this is likely to cost for an Ignis?

[IGNIS SPORT]

Wheel bearings shouldnt be to dear Id say around $50 should be enough, Just get them after market from a bearing shop or you might have a heart stop moment at suzuki parts counter.Last time I looked dba made discs to suit and you could get crossed drilled and ventlated also If your heart desired but Dont quote me But I think they where around the $130 mark each for the standard discs. hope that helps.

[[YLD80Y]]

It might be a long shot, but it could be a problem with the CV that is putting a driveshaft off balance.

Warped disc will only shudder during light braking, never when you're accelerating or cruising. Wheel bearings will make noise long before they collapse, and they would have to be near collapsing to make the car shudder.

[beyondtool]

Applying brakes though the shudder speed immediately stops the shudder, I checked today. Disengaging the clutch does make no difference. I'm thinking CVs now it's the most logical explanation. There is no noise, so I doubt it's a bearing, I remember the racket they made on my swift when they went. Never had CVs go before, should I be looking into a specialist place? Would Suzi Auto be a good choice for this type of repair?

[[YLD80Y]]

Out of curiosity, has your IS had the driveshaft circlip issue fixed? I know that won't have anything to do with the shudder, just curious.

Replacing the driveshafts isn't a specialty job, and given the price I would be having them removed and inspected first.

[beyondtool]

Yeah all manufacturer issues have been fixed. I've been doing some research on the issue and it does seem that wheel balance is the most likely cause, despite having the wheel balanced a few times. I read that newer cars, particularly with low profile tyres (and cheap ones!) can develop shimmy.

I found this site, that pretty much matches my exact problem:
http://www3.telus.net/jesstzn/hunterbalance.html
Sounds well researched, but I have no idea where I can find an expensive balancing machine such as the GSP9700 in the Brisbane/Gold Coast area.

[beyondtool]

Realised I never updated. I got the wheels balanced at JAX Tweed Heads (4th place I tried) and the car has been golden ever since. Geesh there are some dodgy tyre places on the gold coast...